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 GB Chariot vs Gantetsu

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shaunewbiez
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PostSubject: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:25 am

Hey all, I want to ask, lets say I have a GB face up on the field, I smashing ground the opponents Gantetsu, he uses its effect to remove an exceed material to prevent destruction, can I use GB Chariot on it?
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Ball-Snow
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:47 am

No. Gantetsu's effect to remove an exceed material to prevent destruction does not trigger. The removal of exceed material is @ resolution(when it is destoryed)

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pokekid88
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:03 am

Q:エクシーズ素材の数だけ自分のモンスターのステータスを強化する効果と自身が破壊される場合に代わりにエクシーズ素材を取り除ける効果の種別は何ですか?

A:どちらも永続効果です。(11/03/19)

I guess the correct explaination is that its effect DOESN'T activate, its a passive eff...

War chariot negates eff that activates....

自分フィールド上に「剣闘獣」と名のついたモンスターが表側表示で存在する場合に発動する事ができる。効果モンスターの効果の発動を無効にし破壊する。


On side note:

「破壊の代わりに」という形式でエクシーズ素材を取り除くため、効果で取り除いたエクシーズ素材の「墓地へ送られた」時の任意効果をタイミングを逃さずに発動できる。
(チェーン2以降に破壊されたり、破壊のあとに別処理のある場合はタイミングを逃す)

It seems like if Gantetsu gets destroyed in chain link 2 or above, it will get destroyed since it misses the timing due to the fact that u have to resolve other chains....LOL


Last edited by pokekid88 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ball-Snow
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:06 am

pokekid88 wrote:
Q:エクシーズ素材の数だけ自分のモンスターのステータスを強化する効果と自身が破壊される場合に代わりにエクシーズ素材を取り除ける効果の種別は何ですか?

A:どちらも永続効果です。(11/03/19)

I guess the correct explaination is that its effect DOESN'T activate, its a passive eff...

War chariot negates eff that activates....

自分フィールド上に「剣闘獣」と名のついたモンスターが表側表示で存在する場合に発動する事ができる。効果モンスターの効果の発動を無効にし破壊する。

That was what I meant, but didnt understand the japanese words to properly explain. Thanks pokie

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pokekid88
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:10 am

Ball-Snow wrote:
pokekid88 wrote:
Q:エクシーズ素材の数だけ自分のモンスターのステータスを強化する効果と自身が破壊される場合に代わりにエクシーズ素材を取り除ける効果の種別は何ですか?

A:どちらも永続効果です。(11/03/19)

I guess the correct explaination is that its effect DOESN'T activate, its a passive eff...

War chariot negates eff that activates....

自分フィールド上に「剣闘獣」と名のついたモンスターが表側表示で存在する場合に発動する事ができる。効果モンスターの効果の発動を無効にし破壊する。

That was what I meant, but didnt understand the japanese words to properly explain. Thanks pokie

can help me double confirm what i posted above about destroying gachi in chain link2 and above?
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shaunewbiez
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:16 am

Yeah that's what I thought since it's a continuous effect. And what do you mean by destroyed if it's chain link 2 or higher?
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pokekid88
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:22 am

Chain 1: Activate heavy storm
Chain 2: Activate raigeki break, target gachi...

resolvng in Reverse:

Raigeki break resolve, destroying gachi...(can't negate destruction due to having the fact that u have to resolve chain 1 heavy storm.)

resolve heavy storm....

Thats wat i mean....

「破壊の代わりに」という形式でエクシーズ素材を取り除くため、効果で取り除いたエクシーズ素材の「墓地へ送られた」時の任意効果をタイミングを逃さずに発動できる。
(チェーン2以降に破壊されたり、破壊のあとに別処理のある場合はタイミングを逃す)

^^^^^^


Last edited by pokekid88 on Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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TCGnoob
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:26 am

Wow that is actually quite a cool trick.
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shaunewbiez
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:29 am

Oh, so it's effect cant activate in the middle of a chain?
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vampirerion
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:36 am

shaunewbiez wrote:
Oh, so it's effect cant activate in the middle of a chain?

nope.
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shaunewbiez
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:38 am

SEXAYE.
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t3chy
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 3:02 am

pokekid88 wrote:

On side note:

「破壊の代わりに」という形式でエクシーズ素材を取り除くため、効果で取り除いたエクシーズ素材の「墓地へ送られた」時の任意効果をタイミングを逃さずに発動できる。
(チェーン2以降に破壊されたり、破壊のあとに別処理のある場合はタイミングを逃す)

It seems like if Gantetsu gets destroyed in chain link 2 or above, it will get destroyed since it misses the timing due to the fact that u have to resolve other chains....LOL

What it's trying to say is that the timing will be miss if its not the last to resolve, will miss timing.

For a clearer view, refer to what pokekid posted above.



Last edited by t3chy on Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:45 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Akira
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:05 am

Quote :
「破壊の代わりに」という形式でエクシーズ素材を取り除くため、効果で取り除いたエクシーズ素材の「墓地へ送られた」時の任意効果をタイミングを逃さずに発動できる。
(チェーン2以降に破壊されたり、破壊のあとに別処理のある場合はタイミングを逃す)

Literal Translation:
The when "sent to the graveyard" Optional Effect of a Xyz Material, that was detached by the "Destruction Substitution" effect in the form of detaching Xyz Material, can be activated without missing the timing.
(In the scenario that the Destruction is Chain 2 or higher, or there is another process after the Destruction, the timing will be missed)

-

The ruling is talking about the Optional Effect of a Xyz Material that is triggered upon being sent to the graveyard, is able to be activated when sent to the graveyard by the Destruction Substitution effect of "Gachi Gachi Gantetsu".
(It will miss the timing if the Xyz Material being sent to the graveyard is not the last thing to happen, because the Destruction Substitution effect triggers during Chain 2 or higher, or there is another effect after the Destruction)

For example, I have "Archfiend of Gilfer" as a Xyz Material under "Gachi Gachi Gantetsu".
  • "Dark Hole" resolves as Chain 1. The effect of "Gachi Gachi Gantetsu" triggers, detaching "Archfiend of Gilfer". The effect of "Archfiend of Gilfer" can be activated.
  • "Raigeki Break" resolves as Chain 2. The effect of "Gachi Gachi Gantetsu" triggers, detaching "Archfiend of Gilfer". However, Chain 1 has yet to resolve. This result in the missing of timing to activate the effect of "Archfiend of Gilfer".
  • "Soul Taker" resolves as Chain 1. The effect of "Gachi Gachi Gantetsu" triggers, detaching "Archfiend of Gilfer". However, following next is the gaining of 1000 Life Points. This result in the missing of timing to activate the effect of "Archfiend of Gilfer".

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vampirerion
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:14 am

So destruction and xyz material sent to the graveyard must be the last thing to happen?
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avengingknight
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:43 am

then what happens if light and darkness attacks gantetsu? since it will negate the effect will gantestsu die immediatly?
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:06 pm

vampirerion wrote:
So destruction and xyz material sent to the graveyard must be the last thing to happen?

After all the explanation from Akira, I think that that particular ruling is talking about the effect of the monster being sent to the graveyard as a xyz material.

Quote :
"Archfiend of Gilfer" - When this card is sent to the Graveyard, you can select 1 monster on the field and equip it with this card. The equipped monster loses 500 ATK.
If there is an optional effect of an monster when being sent to the graveyard like "Archfiend of Gilfer", it has to be the last thing to happen or else it would miss timing. It is NOT like what pokekid and t3chy is trying to say about gachi destruction replacement effect will miss timing due to not being the last thing to resolve.

avengingknight wrote:
then what happens if light and darkness attacks gantetsu? since it will negate the effect will gantestsu die immediatly?

Read the above and you should get your answer
(Hint: No, and gachi's effect does not activate, does not start a chain, does not go into a chain block)

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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 1:56 pm

icic, i got it now....
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t3chy
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:51 pm

Yuan lai si material miss timing
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:57 pm

Ball-Snow wrote:
vampirerion wrote:
So destruction and xyz material sent to the graveyard must be the last thing to happen?

After all the explanation from Akira, I think that that particular ruling is talking about the effect of the monster being sent to the graveyard as a xyz material.

Quote :
"Archfiend of Gilfer" - When this card is sent to the Graveyard, you can select 1 monster on the field and equip it with this card. The equipped monster loses 500 ATK.
If there is an optional effect of an monster when being sent to the graveyard like "Archfiend of Gilfer", it has to be the last thing to happen or else it would miss timing. It is NOT like what pokekid and t3chy is trying to say about gachi destruction replacement effect will miss timing due to not being the last thing to resolve.

avengingknight wrote:
then what happens if light and darkness attacks gantetsu? since it will negate the effect will gantestsu die immediatly?

Read the above and you should get your answer
(Hint: No, and gachi's effect does not activate, does not start a chain, does not go into a chain block)
Im sorry but i dont get it. Why wont gantetsu activate its effect when light and darkness dragon attacks it? i thought it will activate and will be negated by light and darkness dragon?
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:40 pm

avengingknight wrote:
Ball-Snow wrote:
vampirerion wrote:
So destruction and xyz material sent to the graveyard must be the last thing to happen?

After all the explanation from Akira, I think that that particular ruling is talking about the effect of the monster being sent to the graveyard as a xyz material.

Quote :
"Archfiend of Gilfer" - When this card is sent to the Graveyard, you can select 1 monster on the field and equip it with this card. The equipped monster loses 500 ATK.
If there is an optional effect of an monster when being sent to the graveyard like "Archfiend of Gilfer", it has to be the last thing to happen or else it would miss timing. It is NOT like what pokekid and t3chy is trying to say about gachi destruction replacement effect will miss timing due to not being the last thing to resolve.

avengingknight wrote:
then what happens if light and darkness attacks gantetsu? since it will negate the effect will gantestsu die immediatly?

Read the above and you should get your answer
(Hint: No, and gachi's effect does not activate, does not start a chain, does not go into a chain block)
Im sorry but i dont get it. Why wont gantetsu activate its effect when light and darkness dragon attacks it? i thought it will activate and will be negated by light and darkness dragon?

Because it is an continuous effect.

So this means Soul Taker is a god card?

Bump this up~.
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t3chy
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:47 pm

vampirerion wrote:
avengingknight wrote:
Ball-Snow wrote:
vampirerion wrote:
So destruction and xyz material sent to the graveyard must be the last thing to happen?

After all the explanation from Akira, I think that that particular ruling is talking about the effect of the monster being sent to the graveyard as a xyz material.

Quote :
"Archfiend of Gilfer" - When this card is sent to the Graveyard, you can select 1 monster on the field and equip it with this card. The equipped monster loses 500 ATK.
If there is an optional effect of an monster when being sent to the graveyard like "Archfiend of Gilfer", it has to be the last thing to happen or else it would miss timing. It is NOT like what pokekid and t3chy is trying to say about gachi destruction replacement effect will miss timing due to not being the last thing to resolve.

avengingknight wrote:
then what happens if light and darkness attacks gantetsu? since it will negate the effect will gantestsu die immediatly?

Read the above and you should get your answer
(Hint: No, and gachi's effect does not activate, does not start a chain, does not go into a chain block)
Im sorry but i dont get it. Why wont gantetsu activate its effect when light and darkness dragon attacks it? i thought it will activate and will be negated by light and darkness dragon?

Because it is an continuous effect.

So this means Soul Taker is a god card?

Bump this up~.


Please read what akira posted like 100003204712903750928734 times.
The text is more on the material missing the timing. Not gantetsu's effect missing the timing. Gantetsu will not be destroyed even if you use soul taker.
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:39 pm

Oh u meant in that way, i thought gantetsu cant even use its effect when i read "gantetsu effect does not activate", lol my english bad~ What you meant to say was that its not a trigger effect and thats its a continues effect~
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PostSubject: Re: GB Chariot vs Gantetsu   Today at 2:52 pm

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