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 Ultimate offering

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lingbu
Judai Yuki
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PostSubject: Ultimate offering   Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:20 pm

When ultimate offering is on the field, i normal summon a level 4 and below monster (without ultimate offer),
after that i use ultimate offering, i tribute the monster for an emperor (monarch) monster, does the emperor have its effect activated?

1st e.g the emperor is caius and its effect is a must

For another e.g is an emperor like frost whose effect is not compulsory.
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DSummon
Millennium Earl
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Thu Jun 26, 2008 1:41 pm

Its the same... cause it is still advanced summoned.....

Think of it as ultimate offering is just a multiple usage Double Summon, the magic card. Understand?
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lingbu
Judai Yuki
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Fri Jun 27, 2008 11:28 am

i tink there is a ruling on ultimate offering if u activate ultimate offer for second mornarch.

Correct me if im wrong LOL (adapted form calvin)
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ryuza
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Sat Jun 28, 2008 3:32 pm

ultimate offering = pay LP to summon

so instead of using double summon, u are paying LP to double summon until u got no life... XD

summon/advanced summon should be the same when u talking abt ultimate offering...
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lingbu
Judai Yuki
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Tue Jul 01, 2008 4:58 pm

not many ppl noe that during yr opponent battle phase (YES not many ppl noe)
U can activate ultimate offering to normal summon a monster!!!

this is about the ruling for summoning of an emperor monster,
if frost mornach is summoned by ultimate offering , can frost use effect???
During opponent's battle phase as its effect is not a must, can its effect be activated?

Other case is mornach that is a MUST effect when summoned (raiza)
, can it use its effect when normal summoned DURING opponent's battle phase?

This is the actual qns i wanna ask but all of yr gave me answers for during yr own turn use blood offering...

PSPS if i make mistake in asking...
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ryuza
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Thu Jul 03, 2008 12:52 am

lingbu wrote:
not many ppl noe that during yr opponent battle phase (YES not many ppl noe)
U can activate ultimate offering to normal summon a monster!!!

this is about the ruling for summoning of an emperor monster,
if frost mornach is summoned by ultimate offering , can frost use effect???
During opponent's battle phase as its effect is not a must, can its effect be activated?

Other case is mornach that is a MUST effect when summoned (raiza)
, can it use its effect when normal summoned DURING opponent's battle phase?

This is the actual qns i wanna ask but all of yr gave me answers for during yr own turn use blood offering...

PSPS if i make mistake in asking...

to answer ur qns...

taken from netrep:

"When you activate Ultimate Offering's effect, you pay the 500 Life
Points as a cost at activation, and then the Summon occurs at
resolution of Ultimate Offering's effect in that chain. This means that
it is possible to Summon a monster in the middle of a chain with
Ultimate Offering's effect.
"

"If you are using Ultimate Offering's effect to perform a Tribute
Summon, you Tribute the monster when Ultimate Offering's effect
RESOLVES and you perform the Tribute Summon,
NOT when you activate
Ultimate Offering's effect and pay the 500 Life Points."

"[Re: Mobius the Frost Monarch] If "Mobius the Frost Monarch" is Tribute
Summoned by the effect of "Ultimate Offering" in the middle of a chain

(and is not the last step of the chain to resolve), then you have
missed the timing on his effect and you cannot activate his effect to
destroy 2 Spell or Trap Cards."


Basically, if you use the UO effect on your own turn, as long as UO is the first chain that happens, Mobius the frost monarch will be able to choose to activate effect, but if you were to activate the effect say, to a chain....

for example

Player A has maruding captain in face up attack position

Player B has a face up attack position Berserk gorrilla and a face up Ultimate offering

Player A attacks with Maruding Captain

Player A activates shrink on berserk gorrilla (chain 1)

Player B activates UO to summon mobius the frost monarch (chain 2)

UO resolves and berserk gorrila is released/tributed for the summoning of mobius the frost monarch (chain 2 resolved)

As Shrink is still not resolved, mobius missed the timing to choose to activate its effect.

shrink resolves and targets no one (chain 1 resolved)

This is the example if UO was used in the middle of the chain.


but if UO was used by itself.

Player B has a face up ojama yellow on the field
Player A has 2 face down cards in magic/trap zones

Player B activates a face down UO on his main phase
Player A does nothing

Player B activates UO's effect to summon mobius the frost monarch (chain 1)

Player B tribute/release ojama yellow and successfully summon mobius the frost monarch (chain 1 resolves)

Player B chooses to activate and destroys 2 of Player A's magic/trap zones



One more thing... for mobius is abit tricky, because of the timing effects.... mobius text is, "when this card is tribute summoned, you can destroy up to 2 spell or trap cards on the field."

This is by timing.

this is the ruling on timing by UDE:

"Sometimes a Trigger Effect says that “when” a condition happens, you “can” activate its effect. In this case, you are only allowed to activate the effect when the condition being met was the last thing to happen in the game (activating cards & effects that haven’t resolved yet doesn’t count).

If the triggering condition happened for an optional Trigger Effect, but something else has happened after that, then you have “missed the timing” and you cannot activate it.

For example, this can happen if the optional Trigger Effect monster was Tributed for a Tribute Summon or to activate a card effect, or if the triggering condition happened in a chain and wasn’t Chain Link 1, or if another card effect or game effect has happened since then. The triggering condition has to be the very last thing that happened in order for a “when… you can” optional Trigger Effect to activate.

If the Triggering Condition for the optional Trigger Effect happens as Chain Link 2 or higher, it will still "miss the timing", even if all the effects lower on the chain resolve with no effect (disappear), or are negated by a Continuous Effect."


but for raiza the storm monarch the text is "when this card is tribute summoned, return 1 card on the field to the top of its owner's deck"

This one is in-built effect.

Ruling from UDE:

"Many cards and effects can only be activated under certain conditions, or
can only be used against certain targets. But because other cards and effects can be chained to them, and resolve before the original card resolves, those conditions aren't always still correct at the end of the chain.

In general, if a card has specific conditions in order to be activated, those conditions only have to be correct at the time the card is activated. If they are no longer correct when the card resolves, the card's effect still resolves.

However, if a card has specific conditions regarding its target, and those conditions are no longer correct at the time the card is activated and when the card resolves, then the card's effect disappears."


Hope this helps
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Axehead
Judai Yuki
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Sat Sep 20, 2008 11:59 pm

lingbu wrote:
not many ppl noe that during yr opponent battle phase (YES not many ppl noe)
U can activate ultimate offering to normal summon a monster!!!

this is about the ruling for summoning of an emperor monster,
if frost mornach is summoned by ultimate offering , can frost use effect???
During opponent's battle phase as its effect is not a must, can its effect be activated?

Other case is mornach that is a MUST effect when summoned (raiza)
, can it use its effect when normal summoned DURING opponent's battle phase?

This is the actual qns i wanna ask but all of yr gave me answers for during yr own turn use blood offering...

PSPS if i make mistake in asking...

Can't. Cause you miss the timing. And besides, aren't there any priority issues?
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yewsoon
Junior Duelist
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:10 am

then can caius the shadow monarch activate his effect cos it is a must?
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Axehead
Judai Yuki
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:27 am

yewsoon wrote:
then can caius the shadow monarch activate his effect cos it is a must?

Caius is a COMPULSORY Trigger effect. And COMPULSORY trigger effects are effects that must resolve. When several effects go on chain, and two or more effects trigger at the same time, the COMPULSORY effects all go to the BEGINNING of the Chain, and the Optional effects are put to the end of the Chain.

Then, the ruling on timing by UDE:

"Sometimes a Trigger Effect says that “when” a condition happens, you “can” activate its effect. In this case, you are only allowed to activate the effect when the condition being met was the LAST thing to happen in the game (activating cards & effects that haven’t resolved yet doesn’t count).

Notice the two words in CAPS.

So Caius' effect becomes the first thing, so it cannot.
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bahamut84
Millennium Earl
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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Sun Sep 21, 2008 12:39 am

Stop digging up old topic.

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PostSubject: Re: Ultimate offering   Today at 4:09 pm

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