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 how to define whether discarding is a cost?

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-Mama-_-lemon-
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PostSubject: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:05 am

many monsters in fabled series can discard cards, but after discarding theres an effect that follows. so is that discarding for cost? for e.g the fabled nozochee effect says "During your Main Phase, you can discard 1 "Fabled" monster and Special Summon this card from your hand. When this card is Special Summoned this way, you can Special Summon 1 Level 2 or lower "Fabled" monster from your hand." is tis discard consider a cost?
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wingwing98
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 2:58 am

normally cost phrasing ends with a full stop after you applied some "action". like solemn judgement etc.
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-Mama-_-lemon-
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:17 am

really define whether its a cost by a full stop?
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Ball-Snow
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 3:30 am

-Mama-_-lemon- wrote:
really define whether its a cost by a full stop?

I don't know what you mean there ._.

Well below are examples of cost and discard on resolution

Cost
Quote :

Raigeki Break
Discard 1 card. Destroy 1 card on the field.

Discard on resolution
Quote :

Machina Fortress
You can discard Machine-Type monster(s) whose total Levels equal 8 or more to Special Summon this card from your hand or Graveyard.

From the cards text.
Card's effect cost will usually be declared first and end with a full stop, like in raigeki break
Cards effect that covers the whole sentence, before ending with a full stop, usually mean that the cards u discard are on resolution of that effect, for example machina fortress
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-Mama-_-lemon-
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:30 am

so if u use machina fortress effect to discard darkworld monsters like goldd can they activate their own effect? are u suggesting that most of MGS and DARK WORLD monsters effect that includes discarding can cause other MGS and DARK WORLD monsters to activate their effects? e.g i use fabled nozochee to discard 1 fabled cerburrel, does this activates fabled cerburrel effect?
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Ball-Snow
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:38 am

-Mama-_-lemon- wrote:
so if u use machina fortress effect to discard darkworld monsters like goldd can they activate their own effect? are u suggesting that most of MGS and DARK WORLD monsters effect that includes discarding can cause other MGS and DARK WORLD monsters to activate their effects? e.g i use fabled nozochee to discard 1 fabled cerburrel, does this activates fabled cerburrel effect?

1. Does a monster's effect being able to be triggered depends firstly on is it being discarded as a cost or not. Secondly, if the monster effect is compulsory or optional
2. I did not suggest anything on darkworld or mgs
3. cerburrel's effect is compulsory, so yes

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-Mama-_-lemon-
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 5:22 am

1. i know monster effects such as fabled or dark world can be activated if not discared as cost.
2. i meant if MGS or DARK WORLD can activate their effects thru discarding by monsters effects within their own archtype according to ur explanation by machina fortress.
3. cerburrel's effect is compulsory i know, im asking if nozochee discarding effect is a cost.
4. nvm bout tis i slowly learn and memorize which is cost and not thru playing.
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bahamut84
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:14 am

1) Fabled monsters effect like cerburel will still activate even if discarded as a cost.
2) Fabled and darkworld are 2 different thing. Fabled does not care as long it is discarded from hand to grave. Dark world effect only activate when discarded by an effect. But anyway I dont understand this question since theres no Machina Fortress for DW.
3) No its not a cost.
4) have fun.

The easy way to see if an effect is a cost for activation by looking out for the full stop. True story.

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hamtaro
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:45 am

-Mama-_-lemon- wrote:

4. nvm bout tis i slowly learn and memorize which is cost and not thru playing.

this. some times effects are phrased like its a cost, but actually its an effect and vice versa. so all we can do is play and slowly memorise

eg. Drill warrior, Bone Temple Block, Blaze cannon is discard by effect not cost
Card trader is put back by cost not effect
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shaunewbiez
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Tue Jun 21, 2011 4:10 pm

MOST costs are determined if they state "discard a card TO do something" or, "discard one card. Do something."
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-Mama-_-lemon-
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 1:43 am

bahamut84 wrote:
1) Fabled monsters effect like cerburel will still activate even if discarded as a cost.
2) Fabled and darkworld are 2 different thing. Fabled does not care as long it is discarded from hand to grave. Dark world effect only activate when discarded by an effect. But anyway I dont understand this question since theres no Machina Fortress for DW.
3) No its not a cost.
4) have fun.

The easy way to see if an effect is a cost for activation by looking out for the full stop. True story.
no luh someone above mentioned bout machina fortress can also help discard. who knows can create a machina world deck or smt.

ty everyone for trying to explain wads cost and wads effect, roughly know liao but truth is... STILL UNCLEAR.
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bahamut84
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:36 am

Machina Fortress
You can discard Machine-Type monster(s) whose total Levels equal 8 or
more to Special Summon this card from your hand or Graveyard. When this
card is destroyed by battle and sent to the Graveyard, select and
destroy 1 card your opponent controls. When this face-up card you
control is targeted by an opponent's Effect Monster's effect, look at
your opponent's hand and discard 1 card from their hand.

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d3stin3d
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 3:38 am

-Mama-_-lemon- wrote:
so if u use machina fortress effect to discard darkworld monsters like goldd can they activate their own effect? are u suggesting that most of MGS and DARK WORLD monsters effect that includes discarding can cause other MGS and DARK WORLD monsters to activate their effects? e.g i use fabled nozochee to discard 1 fabled cerburrel, does this activates fabled cerburrel effect?



i dont think anyone suggested that machina fortress can be used for DW engine except for yourself.
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-Mama-_-lemon-
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:09 am

- baha -opps ps forgotten that fortress need use machine.
- d3stin3d -erm who suggest impt meh?
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d3stin3d
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Wed Jun 22, 2011 4:17 am

yup, need to tell the person to read the card effect properly =)
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PostSubject: Re: how to define whether discarding is a cost?   Today at 5:46 am

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