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 Junk collector ruling

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MYultimate
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PostSubject: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 3:54 am

Ruling for junk collector.

JunkCollectorDDY2-JP-UR.jpg

Activate by removing from play this face-up card you control and 1 Normal Trap Card in your Graveyard. This card's effect becomes the effect of the Normal Trap Card removed from play for this effect's activation. This effect can be activated during your opponent's turn.


-Activate by removing from play this face-up card you control and 1 Normal Trap Card in your Graveyard.

It is a cost to remove itself n the trap from game, cards like D.D crow & Raigeki break cannot be chain to the selected trap & monster respectively.

-This effect can be activated during your opponent's turn.

It can be chain to another card like how D.D crow, because if you cant chain it, its not possible to activate it on opponent's turn.

Cost might be ignored, but do take note the requirement & timing must be correct.

If there is any point that I miss out, please update me. Or if the ruling is wrong please tell me Smile


Last edited by MYultimate on Wed Dec 09, 2009 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total
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bahamut84
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:51 am

Not affected by Skill Drain since self removal is cost =D

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XiaoCola
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:54 am

if i activate this card effect and target cards that has activation requirement.
wad would happen?

example of such card,
accumlated fortune.can jusst draw 2 or must wait till the requirement is reached?
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DSummon
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:42 am

Activation requirements must be met.. Example, Magical Explosion you still must have 0 hand, bottomless can only activate when opponent summon 1.5k atk above monster, etc
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MYultimate
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:32 pm

DSummon wrote:
Activation requirements must be met.. Example, Magical Explosion you still must have 0 hand, bottomless can only activate when opponent summon 1.5k atk above monster, etc

I beg a diff to this:

-This card's effect becomes the effect of the Normal Trap Card removed from play for this effect's activation.

It suppose to activate the effect ignoring the cost as the cost for activation is already paid(remove monster & trap) <- is the cost for activation... so it just use the effect. Correct me if im wrong

There is a reason why Makyura the Destructor is banned (quote from frien ;])
because it just ignore the activation cost...

Diamond dude:
Once per turn, you can reveal the top card of your Deck. If it is a Normal Spell Card, send it to the Graveyard and you can activate its effect during the Main Phase of your next turn.


Last edited by MYultimate on Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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pokekid88
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:35 pm

MYultimate wrote:
DSummon wrote:
Activation requirements must be met.. Example, Magical Explosion you still must have 0 hand, bottomless can only activate when opponent summon 1.5k atk above monster, etc

I beg a diff to this:

-This card's effect becomes the effect of the Normal Trap Card removed from play for this effect's activation.

It suppose to activate the effect ignoring the cost as the cost for activation is already paid(remove monster & trap) <- is the cost for activation... so it just use the effect. Correct me if im wrong

Yeach...cost is paid...but u still need to meet the trap cards requirement....

This card is different from diamond dude....


Q:「通常罠のコスト」「発動条件」は無視できますか?
A:コストは支払う必要はありません。発動条件の場合はそれを満たしてないカードを除外して発動すること自体できません。(09/11/21)


Q: Does this card ignores the cost and requirement of the normal trap?
A: There is no need to pay the cost of activation. Activation requirement must be fullfill to use this card's effect.


Last edited by pokekid88 on Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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DSummon
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:35 pm

Erm, yes, its wrong....You dont pay the cost, correct, but you still must meet activation requirements... Activation requirements and cost is 2 different things...

E.g.
By your logic, does it mean you can "bottomless" opponent anytime you want? Like he has a monster that is 1.5k attack, and you have junk collector. When he declares attack on you, you can just use junk collector effect, copy bottomless, and use on that monster?

Of course not!

If can next time people enter battle phase I can just copy tidal wave and clear whole field, or copy mirror force when he summons an attack mode brionac, etc etc. Heck, I can just copy starlight road and summon a stardust dragon. Just do some shine angel summon out junk collector, then remove with a starlight road and summon stardust dragon. STRONG!
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:41 pm

DSummon wrote:
Erm, yes, its wrong....You dont pay the cost, correct, but you still must meet activation requirements... Activation requirements and cost is 2 different things...

E.g.
By your logic, does it mean you can "bottomless" opponent anytime you want? Like he has a monster that is 1.5k attack, and you have junk collector. When he declares attack on you, you can just use junk collector effect, copy bottomless, and use on that monster?

Of course not!

If can next time people enter battle phase I can just copy tidal wave and clear whole field, or copy mirror force when he summons an attack mode brionac, etc etc. Heck, I can just copy starlight road and summon a stardust dragon. Just do some shine angel summon out junk collector, then remove with a starlight road and summon stardust road. STRONG!


Wooh..new synchro?
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:43 pm

Sorry lah, typo, already editted before you post liao, LOL
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MYultimate
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:46 pm

DSummon wrote:

If can next time people enter battle phase I can just copy tidal wave and clear whole field, or copy mirror force when he summons an attack mode brionac, etc etc. Heck, I can just copy starlight road and summon a stardust dragon. Just do some shine angel summon out junk collector, then remove with a starlight road and summon stardust dragon. STRONG!

yes i wan to confirm this...

wad about cards like Huge Revolution?

-This card can only be activated during your Main Phase, when "People Running About", "Oppressed People", and "United Resistance" are face-up on your side of the field. Send all cards in your opponent's hand to the Graveyard and destroy all cards your opponent controls on the field.

ignoring the requirement n just clear field & hand.
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:50 pm

Q:「通常罠のコスト」「発動条件」は無視できますか?
A:コストは支払う必要はありません。発動条件の場合はそれを満たしてないカードを除外して発動すること自体できません。(09/11/21)

Direct Translate:
Q: A normal trap's cost and activation requirements can be ignored?
A: Cost does not have to be paid. Activation requirements however must still be fulfilled or you cannot remove junk collector to activate the card.

Taken from here

Enough said

Edit:
Extra service, also taken from the above website:

《大革命》や《風林火山》等のように発動条件が存在する場合はそれを無視することはできないので注意。
Direct Translate:
Big Revolution and Fu-Rin-Ken-Zan similar cards with such activation requirements cannot be ignored. Please note.
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:57 pm

cost are "pay to play" cards,activation requirement doesnt make u pay

cost are like
pay LP
send/discard from hand
tribute cards

activation requirement only allows u to activate when certain timing are met

mirror force: when ur opp attack
trapdust shoot: when ur opp has 4+ cards in hand

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MYultimate
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:14 pm

DSummon wrote:


《大革命》や《風林火山》等のように発動条件が存在する場合はそれを無視することはできないので注意。
Direct Translate:
Big Revolution and Fu-Rin-Ken-Zan similar cards with such activation requirements cannot be ignored. Please note.

Sad
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kyoju
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:31 am

Even though the source is reliable, I do not agree with that ruling. Perhaps it's better to seek clarification from Konami instead of Japanese YGO Wiki? Before I continue as to why Junk Collector activating Huge Revolution is logical, I'd like to break down Huge Revolution's card text.


This card can only be activated during your Main Phase, when "People Running About", "Oppressed People", and "United Resistance" are face-up on your side of the field. Send all cards in your opponent's hand to the Graveyard and destroy all cards your opponent controls on the field.

As we can see, the bolded parts shows the activation requirements, which in this case, requires three of the aforementioned monsters on the field, during the Main Phase. The latter unbolded part, is the card's EFFECT. Now let us remember this as we continue back to Junk Collector.


Then let us review Junk Collector's effect:
フィールド上に表側表示で存在するこのカードと自分の墓地に存在する通常罠カード1枚をゲームから除外して発動する。このカードの効果は、この効果を発動するためにゲームから除外した通常罠カードの効果と同じになる。この効果は相手ターンでも発動する事ができる。

Activate by removing from play this face-up card you control and 1 Normal Trap Card in your Graveyard. This card's effect becomes the effect of the Normal Trap Card removed from play for this effect's activation. This effect can be activated during your opponent's turn.

We'll break this down into parts so understanding this would be a simpler process. Firstly, we have the activation costs. In order to activate Junk Collector's effect, we would have remove both Junk Collector and a designated Trap Card in the grave from play. Once Junk Collector's effect is activated (with costs paid), Junk Collector's effect becomes the EFFECT of the Normal Trap Card that was removed (remember, we do not actually activate the removed from play Trap Card, we only COPY it's EFFECT). Continuing on, Junk Collector copies the EFFECT (No, not the card text, but rather, the effect Neutral )of the trap card. If you remember what we mentioned earlier on, the effect of Huge Revolution was the destruction involved, and not the activation requirements.

However if the Konami rulings state otherwise, I would then request for an errata because it's very confusing as it's not clear enough. Junk Collector's effect should then be:

Activate by removing from play this face-up card you control and 1 Normal Trap Card in your Graveyard. This card's effect becomes the effect of the Normal Trap Card removed from play for this effect's activation. This effect can be activated during your opponent's turn. You can only use a Trap Card with the correct timing.

I'm not good with words, but I stole it from "Bait Doll"


Force the activation of 1 face-down Trap Card. If the timing of the activation of the Trap Card is incorrect, negate the effect and destroy it. If it is not a Trap Card, it is returned to its original position. After this card is activated, it is placed into the Deck (not the Graveyard). Then shuffle the Deck.
affraid
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bahamut84
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:50 am

Or you can just follow the ruling of a similar card.

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:Trap_of_Darkness

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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:53 am

Well...

As simple logic would state.... Example, copy starlight road.

The effect states there, negate the m/t and destroy, then summon stardust. If going by your, activation requirement not required, then you can just summon stardust, dont even need to care about whether he activated any magic trap.

Same goes for Magician's Circle, dont need spellcaster to declare attack, you can just summon out magicians?

I still say most epic will still be copying tidal wave when opponent enter battle phase, or copying mirror force when theres a potential dangerous monster like Brionac. Our metagame will probably totally change
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:01 am

kyoju wrote:
However if the Konami rulings state otherwise, I would then request for an errata because it's very confusing as it's not clear enough.

Hi, please help yourself by clicking here
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:42 am

I'm not asking you to provide an errata for me! I'm merely stating that it's logical for Junk Collector to be able to use it's effect.
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:56 am

@ davin

in card games we dont play by logic,rulings always > logic and its like that and we have to follow

only certain organisation's ruling too strong play by logic

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A husband / father / son cannot play his 3 roles with the same mask. It'll be so weird!

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What is the real me?
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kyoju
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:00 pm

LOL, okay. I'm not saying that the rulings are wrong! I'm just saying that it's confusing!
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 4:08 pm

je$$ wrote:
@ davin

in card games we dont play by logic,rulings always > logic and its like that and we have to follow

only certain organisation's ruling too strong play by logic

Like Masturbation Oso-need Viagra?

LOL, hatred carries on in new topic. (Note, no actual team names were mentioned so no faggots were insulted in the process)

@kyoju
Well, rulings are set by Japanese people who we dont even see, so we might not understand them. Some rulings I find weird also, like, why limit break is times 2 not times 4, why is it only restricted to 1 and not unrestricted, etc. But you cant win them all right?

Seriously though, usually when there is a paste of some japanese text, its normally equals to dont need argue liao. Especially when the source is given and its not some random japanese guy blog, lol.
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 8:39 pm

DSummon wrote:
je$$ wrote:
@ davin

in card games we dont play by logic,rulings always > logic and its like that and we have to follow

only certain organisation's ruling too strong play by logic

Like Masturbation Oso-need Viagra?

LOL, hatred carries on in new topic. (Note, no actual team names were mentioned so no faggots were insulted in the process)

@kyoju
Well, rulings are set by Japanese people who we dont even see, so we might not understand them. Some rulings I find weird also, like, why limit break is times 2 not times 4, why is it only restricted to 1 and not unrestricted, etc. But you cant win them all right?

Seriously though, usually when there is a paste of some japanese text, its normally equals to dont need argue liao. Especially when the source is given and its not some random japanese guy blog, lol.

How is masturbation related to card games? Masturbation got rulings one meh?

And uh, more random copy & paste:

Q:効果分類は何ですか?
A:誘発即時効果になります。(09/11/21)

Q:「通常罠のコスト」「発動条件」は無視できますか?
A:コストは支払う必要はありません。発動条件の場合はそれを満たしてないカードを除外して発動すること自体できません。(09/11/21)

Q:このカードの特殊召喚に成功した時、このカードの効果で墓地の《激流葬》の効果を発動することはできますか?
A:はい、発動できます。(09/11/21)

Q:このカードの効果の発動時に対象を取る通常罠カードを除外した場合、その対象を選択するのはこのカードの効果発動時になりますか?
A:はい、このカードの効果の発動時その通常罠を除外した際に対象を選択して発動します。(09/11/21)

Q:このカードの効果で通常罠カードの効果を適用する場合、《E・HERO ワイルドマン》などの罠カードの効果を受けないモンスターでもその効果は適用されますか?
A:はい、効果モンスターの効果として適用させますので、その効果は適用されます。(09/11/21)

Q:ダメージステップ中にこのカードの効果を発動できますか?
A:いいえ、できません。(09/11/21)

Q:《鎖付き爆弾》をコピーすることはできますか?
A:できません。(09/11/23)

Q:《偽物のわな》をコピーすることはできますか?
A:できません。(09/11/26)

Q:《フェイク・フェザー》をコピーすることはできますか?
A:調整中。(09/11/26)

Q:自分の墓地に存在する罠カードが《狡猾な落とし穴》のみの時、この《狡猾な落とし穴》を除外してその効果を使用できますか?
A:いいえ、その場合罠カードである《狡猾な落とし穴》自身が墓地に存在する事になるので、発動条件を満たせず《狡猾な落とし穴》を除外すること自体できません。(09/11/26)

Q:フィールド上にこのカードを含むモンスターが4体存在する時に、このカードを除外して発動条件が満たせなくなる状況で《つり天井》を除外できますか?
A:調整中(09/11/26)
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:02 pm

..... Why you paste all the things which I had already given the link for?
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:14 pm

if you still dont believe then wait for the official ruling to be updated loh.
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 9:52 pm

Actually... The Japanese wiki site I gave is about as official as it gets...

Worse is this card will confirm have to wait quite long for English version. So no English rulings that everyone can understand anytime soon...
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:07 pm

but he wants to see the official,the real official konami website mah(even though we know wiki is as official like what you said),what to do?
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:38 pm

Good luck to you then. The official Konami site itself doesnt show any rulings, thats a fact since YGO started. It just has like a basic database kinda idea, but nothing really detailed
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PostSubject: Re: Junk collector ruling   Today at 12:34 am

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