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 wanghu

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wingwing98
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PostSubject: wanghu   Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:10 pm

let say player A has 3 burden of the mighty on field and wanghu on field,can player B activates the following monster's effect before they get destroyed by wanghu when they are summoned?
1.demise
2.glad beast murmillo(special summoned by another G.B)
3.judgement dragon
4.DAD
5.dark dive
6.brionac
thnz a million!
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:29 pm

All can on priority activate effect.... Just 1 time that is. But murmillo abit cant remember effect, so not so sure about that one
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 12, 2009 10:43 pm

i think all of the following u listed, if on priority effect, can use it's effect. but like ds said, once.
for the memilo, still can destory bah cos the effect activated once it's special summoned by a G.B.'s effect

u summon -> use priority effect -> burden of mighty comes into play -> wang hu's effect come into play -> destorys monster -> your priority effect comes into play.

i'm assuming it's like that =\


Last edited by Ball-Snow on Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:33 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : comes into play =\)
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MintStar
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:23 pm

I believe Burden of Mighty is a continuous effect which does not create a chain, so it just applies to whatever comes into field the moment it hits field.

Monster with effects that grants them priority (unless in special scenario that priority is skipped or blocked as some would call it) will be able to activate its effect unless the effects explicitly states it needs to be on field.

Quote :
* If a monster\'s ATK when it is Summoned is less than 1400 due to the effect of other cards, such as a Field Spell Card that reduces its ATK, it is destroyed by \"King Tiger Wanghu\"\'s effect (so apply all existing modifiers before determining if the monster is destroyed). If \"Command Knight\" is Summoned, it increases its own ATK to 1600 before \"King Tiger Wanghu\" can destroy it.[1]

* If \"King Tiger Wanghu\" is Normal Summoned or Special Summoned, and its own ATK is reduced below 1400 by a pre-existing effect, then it destroys itself when Summoned. (Example: \"King Tiger Wanghu\" and \"Bladefly\" are Special Summoned simultaneously by \"Cyber Jar\". \"King Tiger Wanghu\"\'s ATK is 1300, and it is destroyed by its own effect (and \"Bladefly\" is also destroyed by \"King Tiger Wanghu\"\'s effect).[1]
from http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Card_Rulings:King_Tiger_Wanghu

So what happens is, the monster hits field, gets affected by the various on-going effect and just die with no priority whatsoever...


Last edited by Dr.Brainy on Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:33 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Ball-Snow
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:32 pm

edited my post le =(
sry is comes into play nt chain =\
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sinstudent
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:33 pm

taken from wiki:
If "King Tiger Wanghu" is on the field and "Marauding Captain" is Summoned, "Marauding Captain" can still activate its effect and Special Summon a monster even though "Marauding Captain" is destroyed.[1]

If "King Tiger Wanghu" is on the field, and "Exiled Force" is Summoned, "King Tiger Wanghu"'s effect immediately activates. Since "Exiled Force" cannot be chained, "King Tiger Wanghu" will destroy "Exiled Force" before the turn player can Tribute "Exiled Force" using its effect.[1]

quite confusing, doesnt exiled force have priority anyway?
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MintStar
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:34 pm

See below.


Last edited by Dr.Brainy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:00 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ball-Snow
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:37 pm

sinstudent wrote:
taken from wiki:

If "King Tiger Wanghu" is on the field, and "Exiled Force" is Summoned, "King Tiger Wanghu"'s effect immediately activates. Since "Exiled Force" cannot be chained, "King Tiger Wanghu" will destroy "Exiled Force" before the turn player can Tribute "Exiled Force" using its effect.[1]

quite confusing, doesnt exiled force have priority anyway?

they didnt apply Priority for in this scenario @@
brainy check it up =x
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MintStar
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 12, 2009 11:39 pm

Ok we see the card effect first:

Burden of the Mighty
Each face-up monster your opponent controls loses 100 ATK x its own Level.

Quote :
Continuous Spell Cards are Spell Speed 1 Spell Cards that stay on the field once they are activated. These are still Spell Cards and can therefore be removed by certain cards such as Harpie's Feather Duster.

The effects of Continuous Spell Cards do not start a Chain.

King Tiger Wanghu
As long as this card remains face-up on the field, destroy all monsters with an ATK equal to 1400 or less that are Normal Summoned or Special Summoned.

Quote :
Trigger Monster Effects activate whenever a certain condition on the field, the nature of play, or the progress of the turn, is met.

Ok in detail what happens:
Scenario 1
1. I declare I wanna summon my Exiled Force, both Wanghu and Burden is already on field.
2. Exiled Force successfully summoned (this means no God D or anything that negates summon.)
3. Immediately, the effect of Burden and/or other continuous effect takes place.
4. Triggered effect of Wanghu takes place.
Quote :
Chain 1: Wanghu's effect

turn player can use his priority to activate any speed 2 cards/effects, but not ignition effects which are speed 1.
(from Akira)
4. Exiled Force destroyed.
5. No chance to tribute for his own effect.
6. Note that in this case the card is considered successfully summoned.

(Much thanks to Akira for pointing out the main gist of the logic here)


Last edited by Dr.Brainy on Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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Ball-Snow
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:04 am

so you mean is that wanghu's effect will str8 away be activated, thus exiled force's priority cant be activated/chained as it is only a speed 1 monster effect?
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:05 am

Yes.
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je$$
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:22 am

priority is speed 1
u can only use priority only if theres no effect activate/chain/ongoing before it

any monster which can priority will be destroyed by wanghu ,therefore u cannot use priority due to mistiming
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MintStar
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:24 am

http://yugioh.wikia.com/wiki/Priority

Go and read bah. There is no speed associated with Turn Priority. Priority is simply the rights to activate your cards first.

As for monster with effects that is speed 2, it is alright to activate them as a chain to Wanghu's effect.
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:56 pm

LOL, as per my recollection last time checked, Franken can still pay 5k and summon something first before franken die from wanghu <- Ultimate example liao

Unless there is a change, there should be no difference with the priority rule, no?

I think the difference here, is that all the other examples so far does not involve the monster sacrificing himself, while exile force have to so yup. I guess cannon soldier if sac ownself also cannot due to above ruling?
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bahamut84
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 1:36 pm

Quote :
LOL, as per my recollection last time checked, Franken can still pay 5k and summon something first before franken die from wanghu

This is known as DS cheating skills.

Simple Explanation:

Continuous effect will always take place and start a chain first. Because monster with main phase activation effect is spell speed one, you cannot put that on the chain. After resolving the continuous effect, your monster is treated as if it don't exist on the field and you cannot activate it's effect anymore because you already lost the timing (or actually more like the monster is already dead).

Using turn player priority does not mean you can by pass other people card effect, it is simply using your priority to put it on the chain first. In the case of Wanghu, the wanghu effect will take place first and it is too late for you to activate your effect since it is already dead.

People misunderstand that using priority means you get your effect first on top of everything else which is wrong.

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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 3:20 pm

je$$ wrote:
priority is speed 1
u can only use priority only if theres no effect activate/chain/ongoing before it

any monster which can priority will be destroyed by wanghu ,therefore u cannot use priority due to mistiming

Priority is not speed 1. There is no association with Spell Speed to Priority. It is the player's priority to to declare activation of whatever effect which sets the spell speed.

So like many ppl have said, when monster gets summoned, Continuous effects resolve before Trigger effects, hence Burden come into play, monster become small, wanghu effect take place, Exiled Force/Lonefire/Dark Armed/Judgement cannot add to chain cause Wanghu is speed 2, and they are speed 1.

If the effect is Speed 2, like Strike Ninja, then you can chain to Wanghu.
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 8:31 pm

^
baha explain everything liao

Quote :
If the effect is Speed 2, like Strike Ninja, then you can chain to Wanghu.

read wat u type pls......strike ninja need to be on field to activate....


and pls treat priority something like "once per turn u can do XXX stuff" ,so the monster need to be on field be4 u can CHOOSE to activate.Like baha said,by the time u choose,the monster is dead....
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Banana
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 9:28 pm

Simply put:

1. Most monsters effects are speed 1 (With exceptions to some others, like Ryu Senshi)
2. You cannot chain speed 1 to speed 1

That should summarise the main points.
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Akira
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Apr 13, 2009 11:24 pm

Point to note that Wanghu is a Trigger Effect and not a Continuous Effect.

Quote :
このカードの効果は誘発効果との裁定である。
「このカードが表側表示でフィールド上に存在する限り」というテキストが永続効果と錯覚させ紛らわしい。
Source: 遊戯王カードWiki - 《王虎ワンフー》

Since Wanghu's effect is a trigger effect, the monster is actually summoned onto the field, and remains on the field until Wanghu's effect resolves. As a result, the turn player is actually able to respond with his priority against Wanghu's effect, provided the following card/effect chained is of the appropriate speed. The only difference here is that since Wanghu's effect is already on the chain, ignition effect (which are speed 1) cannot be chained.

The fact that DS cheated doesn't change. LOL.
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:56 am

LOL, jeff support last time one also.

But then again that was machiam like....5~7 years ago liao, LOLz
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MintStar
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:57 am

Goes to show u have been lying for quite some years. =p
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wingwing98
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:14 am

woah.thanks guys for clearing the doubt.but why marauding captain can uses its effect first b4 it gets killed by wanghu?is it that his effect is spell speed 2?
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sat Apr 18, 2009 1:29 am

Cause it's summon trigger effect like Airman.
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sat Apr 18, 2009 3:25 am

Dr.Brainy wrote:
Goes to show u have been lying for quite some years. =p

And it is still ongoing!

Just few months back we had casual duel after work.

I went first, set Trap Dust chute and when it was his turn, I activated it and realised I see he has 7 cards in hand!!

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wingwing98
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:10 pm

lol.7 cards on hand.
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:27 am

Hello, you yourself say casual play liao mah. I train my magician techniques cannot meh....
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:51 am

DSummon wrote:
Hello, you yourself say casual play liao mah. I train my magician techniques cannot meh....

EEEEEEEEE LOL

next time any1 play with ds must say play serious,tournament level serious mode serious face lol

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wingwing98
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:39 am

ltr he draw 5 cards nia,coz 4get abt draw phrase.haha
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wingwing98
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon May 11, 2009 9:12 am

oh yeah some que agn.can opponent get to search for gadget if they summon gadget and wanghu is on the field?and will wanghu die due to its own effect if opponent uses brain or mind control,and now wanghu is on their side and burden is on my side of the field?
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon May 11, 2009 9:38 am

do u even read?
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon May 11, 2009 10:19 am

wingwing98 wrote:
oh yeah some que agn.can opponent get to search for gadget if they summon gadget and wanghu is on the field?and will wanghu die due to its own effect if opponent uses brain or mind control,and now wanghu is on their side and burden is on my side of the field?

wanghu going over to the opponent side through brain control or mind control IS NOT a summon, i dun see how it will die.
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon May 11, 2009 12:26 pm

oh yeah sorry,forget about that part.then wat about gadgets?can they search for another gadget when they are summoned?
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon May 11, 2009 2:26 pm

Let's take a look at one of the Gadget monster.
Quote :
グリーン・ガジェット
このカードが召喚・特殊召喚に成功した時、デッキから「レッド・ガジェット」1体を手札に加える事ができる。
Quote :
Green Gadget
When you Normal Summon or Special Summon this card, you can add 1 "Red Gadget" from your Deck to your hand.

This is obviously a triggered effect upon successful Normal or Special Summon of this card. Take extra notice that the card did not state that it needs to be on field for its effect to be triggered.

Assuming you are turn player, the chain will be something like this:
Chain 1: Green Gadget's effect
Chain 2: Tiger King Wanghu's effect.

Resolving backwards, Tiger King Wanghu will destroy the Green Gadget, then the Green Gadget's effect will resolve and he will get to search for one Red Gadget.
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon May 11, 2009 7:05 pm

i tot there was a tread about wang hu's effect's ruling already =\

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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon May 11, 2009 7:43 pm

lazy find.
open new
ask again.

repeat
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon May 11, 2009 9:14 pm

lingbu wrote:
lazy find.
open new
ask again.

repeat

Eventually whole section full of threads regarding same cards.
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:08 pm

what happens when both future vision and wanghu on
the field and a monster with less than 1400 attack is normal summoned?how does the chain work?
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PostSubject: Re: wanghu   Today at 8:11 am

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